A parte tutto io giuro che non riesco a capire cosa diavolo ci vedano di sessista.
Sessista o no, devono fare rumore. E non riescono a capire che Moffat non scrive TUTTE le puntate di Doctor Who. Non ci arrivano proprio. Nell’articolo di prima, per esempio, parla di Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS dicendo che è sessista. Peccato che sia stato scritto da qualcun’altro.
Oh, e come dimenticare quando parlano di uno degli episodi dell’era RTD che è, a quanto pare, bellissimo, senza accorgersi che è stato scritto da Moffat? (Non ricordo quale fosse, forse The Girl in the Fireplace)
Cioé, pur di provare che hanno ragione scrivono di TUTTO. E si contraddicono da soli.
I am not Clara’s biggest fan but, I SWEAR, if she saves River she will become my favourite Companion (well, after Donna, of course).
And after River. Clara can be third if she saves River.
Well, but River is not a Companion, technically. Otherwise, of course she would be after her ù.ù
Well, this sucks.
I commented on this post disagreeing with it, and my reply was waiting for approval from a moderator. Approval that never came.
I saw that all the comments were, more or less, positive, and it was kinda weird because this is the internet, and people are bound to have different opinions, so I decided to offer my take on it, which is: I almost completely disagree with what the article says.
And now that, three days later, I go and look at the page to see if someone had responded to my post, ready to listen to the other side of the story, and I realise my comment was never published.
I am really disgusted by their behaviour. My answer was nothing but polite and respectful of their point of view. I simply expressed my thoughts about the article, and my freedom was denied. This is unacceptable, and I think you all should know.
Guys. I have a smartphone now guys. I aM WRITING FROM MY PHONEEEE
I am not Clara’s biggest fan but, I SWEAR, if she saves River she will become my favourite Companion (well, after Donna, of course).
I honestly don’t see the writers bringing River back, and it’ll suck if that effects your few of Clara. Before the finale aired, Moffat said he was going to end a major character’s storyline. And since The Doctor, Clara, Vastra, Jenny and Strax all made it out of the episode alive, I’m thinking it was River.
Besides, bringing River back would kind of complicate the relationsip between the Doctor and Clara. Moffat’s been saying that the Doctor is smitten with Clara, and Clara even confessed to being in love with the Doctor in the prequal. So, River being written out of the show was probably done on purpose.
It’s just that… I really don’t like Clara that much.
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED her in the Asylum! But then… she came across as sort of annoying to me. I can’t put my finger on it, but there’s something specifically that makes me dislike her. (Of course, it’s not like I hate her - I needed time to warm up to Amy too, and in the end I even liked her!)
And, I really really hope you’re wrong about River. I mean, there can always be loopholes if one looks close enough (and the possibility of her coming back as a past version is not that impossible and won’t cause any trouble, right?).
But you know what I can’t get over is that Clara’s story is so important and yet at some point you know her story will end and I know it’s going to be a wretchedly awful ending because her echoes will still be living and dying and the Doctor will run into them and she won’t even know him
i just
Sorry to burst your bubble, but… no. She herself said “[her] story is done”.
I know that the Doctor said the wound in time was his past, present, and future life, but Clara did say she only saw Eleven faces, so we have to deduce that she only existed as echoes from the beginning to the events in The Name of the Doctor.
I am not Clara’s biggest fan but, I SWEAR, if she saves River she will become my favourite Companion (well, after Donna, of course).
Bonjour! I just got up after a day filled with studying yesterday, so I hope you didn’t wait too long for this answer!
I can see how that might have confused you, but there are a few things we have to consider.
First, remember that, even in a time loop, there has to be ground zero, a timeline where the loop starts for the first time, and consequently changes reality around it. The first time we see Clara was in the first episode of this season, The Asylum of the Daleks; consequently, ground zero, from our point of view, is The Name of the Doctor. Of course, it’s the viewer’s timeline that matters, so we will probably always see the beginning of a time loop as it is, or we would ask things as “but if this is a time loop, why didn’t we see it/her/him before?”.
Now, with that hopefully clarified, let me answer your questions.
Why hasn’t the Doctor recognised her, if she’s always with him?
This is a fair question, but also a fairly simple one to answer.
CLARA [OC]: I don’t know where I am. It’s like I’m breaking into a million pieces and there’s only one thing I remember. I have to save the Doctor. […] But he never hears me. […] Almost never.
CLARA [OC]: I’m born, I live, I die. And always, there’s the Doctor. […] And he hardly ever hears me. But I’ve always been there.
So, as Clara herself says, twice, she’s been there since the beginning, but the Doctor almost never sees her.
The only times we are shown he acknowledges her are:
- First Doctor —> The scene where he steals the TARDIS
- Third Doctor —> while driving Bessie (slim chance)
- Eleventh Doctor —> The Asylum
- Eleventh Doctor —> Victorian London
The other Doctors don’t seem to hear her, or don’t care to, frankly. Even Three just (maybe) briefly notices her in the rear-view mirror, but he didn’t even hear her, or he would have stopped (but maybe he was chased, I don’t know which episode that is from but, considered Clara only appears where the GI is or when the Doctor is in danger, then we can assume that Three was running away to or from some kind of danger).
So, as far as we know, only One and Eleven really looked at her, and, you can see, Eleven is only interested in her because she died twice and he’s intrigued by the mystery. One only spoke to her that moment, outside the TARDIS. Why would he even remember her?
Why did we see Clara in the Asylum, if Clara threw herself in the Doctor’s timeline for the first time now?
Okay, this is really complicated for me to explain. I swear it’s so clear in my mind, but I’m afraid I won’t be able to explain properly, so I’ll give it a try, and you tell me if I was clear enough, and if I wasn’t I will try and explain it again at my best!
Our starting point is this: time is happening to and around us right now. It happened, it’s happening, and it will happen. Whatever action you are thinking of doing now, and will do in the next minute, will happen for the present you, but is happening for next!minute you, and has already happened for two minutes from now!you.
Now, another important thing to remember, with time travel, is that there’s a first time for everyone.
When River was standing in the tomb of the Doctor, that was the first time in her timeline that something like that was happening (that, of course, if we assume she’s not lying, even though I have a half-thought that she is, now), so, every change that might affect her, would only be effective now.
I don’t know if you’ve ever seen Charmed?
There’s an episode where one of the lead characters, Piper, is pregnant with her son Chris, who’s also there from the future, so there’s two Chris: one in her uterus, and one gorgeous 26 something. However, the gorgeous, already born, and legal to fantasize on Chris, is poisoned and turned into a spider monster, so Piper drinks the antidote and instantaneously Chris heals.Now, you understand that, if Piper drinks the antidote, and it works on her son, technically Chris should have never been poisoned in the first place, right? But he did, and that’s because, from his point of view, things are just happening, so they affect him only now.
Of course we also have to consider the hypothesis that River was lying, but I will tell you more of that later, when I come back from uni (if I don’t have to study that much again).
So, to recap: we and the Doctor have already seen Clara in the Asylum because things have already happened from future Clara #0, and they’re affecting time. On the other hand, River is not from an altered timeline yet (that’s what she tells us), so things to her happen in the tomb anyway,has Clara meddled already with her past or not.
Also, we have to consider another possibility (but don’t let it confuse you, I’m just saying it for the sake of a complete analysis): Clara may be rewriting River’s past for the first time now. Maybe the other Clara #0 didn’t do it, and she’s the one who starts another loop in the loop, saving River. It’s a possibility, but don’t think about it too much.
I don’t know if I explained myself? I swear it all makes sense in my mind, but when I try to tell it to others it may get a little complicated!
Of course, I’m here if you (or anyone) need me to explain it again, or if you have any more questions!
Au revoir!
Great post. My only critcism is your assumption that the Doctor only noticed Clara after she died twice. Actually, he noticed her at the beginning of The Snowmen, way before any of that happened. He didn’t know about her mystery or the fact that she had previously died. She was just an ordinary girl who he took an interest in. He even gave her the key to his TARDIS and asked her to come away with him when she was on her death bed. So no, her mystery wasn’t the thing that attracted the Doctor to Clara. He took an interest in her way before that.
No, you’re right, I didn’t explain myself there!
I didn’t mean that the Doctor was only interested in her because she died twice, What I meant is that, after she died saving him twice, he went off to look for her specifically, while One, or possibly Three, only saw in her a normal girl, so they didn’t feel the need to investigate on her mystery, and didn’t consider her as a possible Companion because they already had one (this assuming that Three did have a Companion and did actually see her, you know xD).
Sorry if that’s what my words made you think, I swear it’s not what I wanted to say! After all, the Doctor himself has said it: there’s no one who’s not important! (I hope it’s clear, now?)
Ah, I understand you now. Sorry for the mix up. :)
Not at all! You were right! I didn’t re-read what I wrote before posting it, and, now that I did, I can see how my words could convey the wrong meaning!
I just hope people will see this other post and realise that’s not what I meant now xD
Thank you for making me notice! ♥
Bonjour! I just got up after a day filled with studying yesterday, so I hope you didn’t wait too long for this answer!
I can see how that might have confused you, but there are a few things we have to consider.
First, remember that, even in a time loop, there has to be ground zero, a timeline where the loop starts for the first time, and consequently changes reality around it. The first time we see Clara was in the first episode of this season, The Asylum of the Daleks; consequently, ground zero, from our point of view, is The Name of the Doctor. Of course, it’s the viewer’s timeline that matters, so we will probably always see the beginning of a time loop as it is, or we would ask things as “but if this is a time loop, why didn’t we see it/her/him before?”.
Now, with that hopefully clarified, let me answer your questions.
Why hasn’t the Doctor recognised her, if she’s always with him?
This is a fair question, but also a fairly simple one to answer.
CLARA [OC]: I don’t know where I am. It’s like I’m breaking into a million pieces and there’s only one thing I remember. I have to save the Doctor. […] But he never hears me. […] Almost never.
CLARA [OC]: I’m born, I live, I die. And always, there’s the Doctor. […] And he hardly ever hears me. But I’ve always been there.
So, as Clara herself says, twice, she’s been there since the beginning, but the Doctor almost never sees her.
The only times we are shown he acknowledges her are:
- First Doctor —> The scene where he steals the TARDIS
- Third Doctor —> while driving Bessie (slim chance)
- Eleventh Doctor —> The Asylum
- Eleventh Doctor —> Victorian London
The other Doctors don’t seem to hear her, or don’t care to, frankly. Even Three just (maybe) briefly notices her in the rear-view mirror, but he didn’t even hear her, or he would have stopped (but maybe he was chased, I don’t know which episode that is from but, considered Clara only appears where the GI is or when the Doctor is in danger, then we can assume that Three was running away to or from some kind of danger).
So, as far as we know, only One and Eleven really looked at her, and, you can see, Eleven is only interested in her because she died twice and he’s intrigued by the mystery. One only spoke to her that moment, outside the TARDIS. Why would he even remember her?
Why did we see Clara in the Asylum, if Clara threw herself in the Doctor’s timeline for the first time now?
Okay, this is really complicated for me to explain. I swear it’s so clear in my mind, but I’m afraid I won’t be able to explain properly, so I’ll give it a try, and you tell me if I was clear enough, and if I wasn’t I will try and explain it again at my best!
Our starting point is this: time is happening to and around us right now. It happened, it’s happening, and it will happen. Whatever action you are thinking of doing now, and will do in the next minute, will happen for the present you, but is happening for next!minute you, and has already happened for two minutes from now!you.
Now, another important thing to remember, with time travel, is that there’s a first time for everyone.
When River was standing in the tomb of the Doctor, that was the first time in her timeline that something like that was happening (that, of course, if we assume she’s not lying, even though I have a half-thought that she is, now), so, every change that might affect her, would only be effective now.
I don’t know if you’ve ever seen Charmed?
There’s an episode where one of the lead characters, Piper, is pregnant with her son Chris, who’s also there from the future, so there’s two Chris: one in her uterus, and one gorgeous 26 something. However, the gorgeous, already born, and legal to fantasize on Chris, is poisoned and turned into a spider monster, so Piper drinks the antidote and instantaneously Chris heals.Now, you understand that, if Piper drinks the antidote, and it works on her son, technically Chris should have never been poisoned in the first place, right? But he did, and that’s because, from his point of view, things are just happening, so they affect him only now.
Of course we also have to consider the hypothesis that River was lying, but I will tell you more of that later, when I come back from uni (if I don’t have to study that much again).
So, to recap: we and the Doctor have already seen Clara in the Asylum because things have already happened from future Clara #0, and they’re affecting time. On the other hand, River is not from an altered timeline yet (that’s what she tells us), so things to her happen in the tomb anyway,has Clara meddled already with her past or not.
Also, we have to consider another possibility (but don’t let it confuse you, I’m just saying it for the sake of a complete analysis): Clara may be rewriting River’s past for the first time now. Maybe the other Clara #0 didn’t do it, and she’s the one who starts another loop in the loop, saving River. It’s a possibility, but don’t think about it too much.
I don’t know if I explained myself? I swear it all makes sense in my mind, but when I try to tell it to others it may get a little complicated!
Of course, I’m here if you (or anyone) need me to explain it again, or if you have any more questions!
Au revoir!
Great post. My only critcism is your assumption that the Doctor only noticed Clara after she died twice. Actually, he noticed her at the beginning of The Snowmen, way before any of that happened. He didn’t know about her mystery or the fact that she had previously died. She was just an ordinary girl who he took an interest in. He even gave her the key to his TARDIS and asked her to come away with him when she was on her death bed. So no, her mystery wasn’t the thing that attracted the Doctor to Clara. He took an interest in her way before that.
No, you’re right, I didn’t explain myself there!
I didn’t mean that the Doctor was only interested in her because she died twice, What I meant is that, after she died saving him twice, he went off to look for her specifically, while One, or possibly Three, only saw in her a normal girl, so they didn’t feel the need to investigate on her mystery, and didn’t consider her as a possible Companion because they already had one (this assuming that Three did have a Companion and did actually see her, you know xD).
Sorry if that’s what my words made you think, I swear it’s not what I wanted to say! After all, the Doctor himself has said it: there’s no one who’s not important! (I hope it’s clear, now?)
